[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #376 August 4, 2002 In this issue: * Was The Move a "pop" band or a "rock" band? (cont.) * Ex-Move star Burton set to rock 'Grangestock' * 'You want to be like that?' * Unlistenable (cont.) * 2001, Pop Muzic & The Late Wally Cox! * Interesting web site * Tell us the news about yourself... * Reminder: LIGHT!Fest East Coast in just about two weeks ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Useful Web addresses: TheMoveOnline: http://www.themoveonline.com Official Roy Wood site: http://www.roywood.co.uk Face The Music Online: http://www.ftmusic.com Join the ELO List: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/showdown.html Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: Was The Move a "pop" band or a "rock" band? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:49:24 -0700 From: John DeSilva > Was The Move a "pop" band or a "rock" band? The Move struck a balance between pop (catchy singles that sound great on a transistor or car radio) and rock (heavier, longer "pieces" many times thematically linked) that was unique (I also think the Who did this masterfully during the 60's). The Move "moved" pop away from moon-June-spoon dreck with their infinitely catchy, hook laden gems that were lyrically bizarre. Woody's writing, even when musically bombastic (think Wizzard Brew) has always been melodic - I think this is one of the qualities that the Move shares with the Beatles. All in all, the great pop and rock bands of our era have transcended genre labelling - Move music is neither pop or rock in my mind. It's MOVE music, and it's always been fantastic! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Was The Move a "pop" band or a "rock" band? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:00:53 -0700 From: Harvey Rubin In my opinion, I feel The Move were a true pop band on the whole, true as with most pop bands there were exceptions to the rule. "Hello Susie" is one. At the time in the mid sixties in the states, the airplay they got were on FM radio and percieved as progressive underground Rock. As I look back at the band now, I view them as pure pop. Take care. Harvey (San Diego) ********** Subject: Re: Was The Move a "pop" band or a "rock" band? Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 19:11:51 -0700 From: "David Fatta" This is a matter of point of view, and geography plays heavily into it. Up until the release of Shazam, I would say they were a pop band. Like The Who, they had a threatening edge, which seperated them from typical teenybopper fare. Their singles had hooks that were epidemically catchy, and they sounded pop enough to get airplay, but thematically they were heavies, singing about madness, suicide, and psychedelic delusion. From their first single, "Night of Fear", we had those grinding cellos that I love so much. With the release of "Shazam", their focus shifted to longer songs (making them more suitable for FM radio than AM), which were more intricate and more richly produced. Their next single, "Brontosaurus", was as heavy as a single gets, a decided departure from Top 40 Pop Radio. They proved, however, that they could still go back and craft a fine pop tune when they wanted to. Ironically, no one that I know of in the States heard anything before Shazam, until well after the fact. To their American fans, they are clearly a progressive rock band. We have no memory of their hit singles, or their presence on Top 40 radio. We love that material, but we will never hear it in the proper context that our British brethren did. I never took the first album seriously until recently. I bought it in 1971, along with a compilation album of their singles called "Fire Brigade" but they just did not represent the Move I loved. I had a similar experience with The Who. I bought "Meaty, Beaty, Big and Bouncy" when it first came out (1970?) and I had no idea of this bands pop legacy. David Fatta Brummer Wannabee ********** Subject: Re: Was The Move a "pop" band or a "rock" band? Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:57:34 -0700 From: kakman1 Yikes! Almost a head scratcher there. Being from the USA, they seemed to me to be a very schizophrenic band, musically, as for the longest time, I was only familiar with only their recorded output, initially, A&M Records "The Best Of The Move" and "Shazam". For a long time, releases like "Looking On" and "MFTC" were mythical hard to find cutouts, but then an exacta, the French Cube Records release of "Something Else From The Move" and United Artists hybrid "Split Ends" with the final Move singles from Harvest label grafted onto a slightly pruned "MFTC" (at last "Do YA!"). As years went on, I learned more of the band from magazine articles and books and eventually completed my collection to my satisfaction, and changed my opinion ever so slightly. I now feel The Move were a great rock 'n' roll and r&b outfit that also happened to produce some very grade A pop music. They all had very big drive to succeed, to be very big and famous and very rich, but also have a lot fun doing it and chasing their bourgoise dreams (despite all the supposed hippie quotes from their press releases). When the "classic" five split off one by one, the band was truly dying and biding it's time, especially during the cabaret period, until Jeff Lynne joined up and helped re-invigorate the band creatively as a progressive pop act and morphed it into ELO. Whew! Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Pop Rocks Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:57:26 -0700 From: "Stephen Simpson" Was the Move a pop band or a rock band? I think they were a merry band with a rock attitude and a pop sound. In other words, even their "poppier" efforts had a strange, slightly manic and twisty edge. And when they really rocked, they were as heavy as anything the 60s could throw down, the Who, the Kinks, and Hendrix included. On a related tangent, has anyone else heard Cheap Trick's studio bonus CD of "Brontosaurus." The word heavy doesn't do it justice. It's like Leslie West sumo wrestling John Popper at an all-nite Krispy Kreme brawl. Now there's an image for ya! ;) Stephen Simpson ********** Subject: Article: Ex-Move star Burton set to rock 'Grangestock' Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:53:34 -0700 From: "val burgess" Hi all, Don't know if anyone is interested but I have just found this in my local newspaper;- "An open air music extravaganza looks set to liven up the long summer holidays. Eight hours of live blues/rock and electric folk music has been planned at Grangewood farm, near Netherseal, on Saturday August 17. Set in the heart of the National forest, six miles from Tamworth, 'Grangestock' is expected to attract a large audience of 'mature' music lovers. Bands taking to the stage during the day include The Trevor Burton Band, with founder member of The Move, Trevor Burton. With an extensive music career behind him, Trevor was with 60s chart topping band from 1966 to 1969, notching up an impressive catalogue of hits including, Night Of Fear, I Can Hear The Grass Grow, Flowers In The Rain, Fire Brigade and Blackberry Way. After 1976 Trevor teamed up with his close friend Steve Gibbons to enjoy chart success and top ten hits with The Steve Gibbons Band. For the next seven years he toured the world with Steve, then left in 1983 to form his own band playing his unique style of blues. This was constantly interrupted and he teamed up with Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin as one of the journeymen musicians. He also spent nine months on the road with Dexys Midnight Runners Steve Gibbons will also be appearing at the 'Extravaganza.'" (Tamworth Herald) Sounds a great night!! must try and get there, anyone remember him? a bit before my time!!! (only joking) ********** Subject: More on 'Grangestock' Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:29:49 -0700 From: "val burgess" Here is some additional info regarding this event;- Tickets for the day are £16.00 (if booked before Aug 6th) or £19.00 afterwards. Tickets and information are available from Pete and Marcia Birks on 01283 760265. Audiences should bring their own food, wine, tables and chairs for an exceptional session of rock in the perfect surroundings of the national forest. ********** Subject: 'You want to be like that?' Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 22:29:35 -0700 From: Lynn Hoskins In yesterday's Scotsman there was an entertaining feature story about Roddy Frame (of Aztec Camera) in which he talks about how he got started in music. Imagine the look on his mother's face... When he was four or five years old, Frame saw Roy Wood and Wizzard on Top of the Pops. "My sisters were into pop music and the Beatles, so I was hearing them say how great it was all the time. And my dad was a good singer, so there was always music around the house. But I remember seeing Roy Wood with all his hair dyed and all that. I liked him in the Move as well, I loved the sound of the electric guitar in Get The Fire Brigade. And then I saw him on TV, and I said: 'I want to be like that.' My mum said: 'You want to be like that? You don't want to be like that.' I said: 'I really do, that's who I want to be.' So I got a little guitar. ---- The boy wonder matures The Scotsman; Edinburgh (UK) August 2, 2002 by Alastair McKay (c)2002 Scotsman Publications If anyone would like to read the whole article, drop me an e-mail and I'll send it to you. ********** Subject: Re: Unlistenable Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:58:36 -0700 From: kakman1 Richard Messum wrote: >Anyway, i thought i'd stir things up a bit, and suggest three Move / solo >Roy Wood songs that i think are really rather unlistenable. > >Zing went the strings of my heart >Ben Crawley Steel Company >Miss Clarke and the computer Richard, Richard, Richard, you're such a stirrer, aren't you now, hmmmm? You know there's a whole flippin' army of us out there who groove on those tunes which you singled out. Tryin' to get a rise, eh? Well, I'll grant you, "Zing" was done strictly for laughs, I'm almost sure of it, but I enjoy this the same way I enjoy Ed Wood, Jr. movies, William Shatner records, The Shaggs and other pop art train wrecks. It may be bad, but it's fascinatingly bad, almost mesmerizing, pretty ironic. Didn't know The Move were ahead of their time with hip, ironic humour, did you? Now, "Ben Crawley", I have to really take issue with, because I happen to actually find this a rather delightful and humourous Johnny Cash tribute/send up and it is done very affectionately and IS very listenable. The music is fine, so I take it you're not pleased with the Bev lead vocal and maybe the lyric story. As far Bev's singing on this one, he stepped up to mic and pulled this one off, no great stretch like on "Zing", kept it simple and to the point in a very plaintive and deep rumbly vocal. And Roy's lyric was a pretty good knock-off at a Johnny Cash story-style song. I get the feeling he may written this a few years earlier as a personal demo for his own amusement, and then dusted it off for "MFTC". "Miss Clarke And The Computer" Truly inspired by the classic scene from "2001: A Space Odyssey" where astronaut Dave Bowman dismantles the memory of the psychotic supercomputer HAL, a few of you out there have missed the rare beauty and cleverness of this track. At first listen, I thought to myself, "Egads, this is a little tedious." But repeated listens, I started to appreciate the style and execution (and sad dark humour) of the track. The unexpected little lite jazz break in the middle is an utter delight. The sad story of the unrequitted love of the computer towards its operator Miss Clarke and its sad ironic demise at the hands of the object its affection must have made Brian Wilson feel like, "Why didn't I think of that?"(memo to self: get the hell out of the sand box!). I urge that you open your mind a bit there and try listening to this a few more times, okay? Wish I could have gotten around to this earlier, but better late than never. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Unlistenable Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:36:34 -0700 From: "David Fatta" Kevin, Excellent defense of these apparently controversial songs. The occasional infusions of hip, ironic humor are one of my favorite things about The Move. ********** Subject: 2001, Pop Muzic & The Late Wally Cox! Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 11:45:28 -0700 From: Joe Ramsey Kevin wrote: > "Miss Clarke And The Computer" > Truly inspired by the classic scene from "2001: A Space Odyssey" It's funny... there is even a better example of this same theme that predates 2001 by several years. There is a Twilight Zone episode, originally airing in the early sixties starring the late (great) Wally Cox, where a computer, lovingly named Agnes by it's nerdy technician, falls in love with it's (her) user. Trouble starts when Cox meets and falls in love with a REAL woman, making Agnes angry and jealous. When Agnes tries to sabotage Cox's new romance, he has no choice but to dismantle and reprogram her. It has the exact same bittersweet theme as does Roy's song, and unlike HAL from 2001, had more of a "romantic" love idea. I think the Zone episode even had the slowly dying, slow-down in the voice while Agnes professed her love for Cox - just like in Miss Clarke. For those who don't like the song, I think it's probably because it's too much of a novelty, storyteller type; similar to "When Granma Plays The Banjo," in a way. Not one that you'd really want to play over and over... and, unlike most of Roy's work, not one that you may get a different feel from every time you hear it. But for my money, this song has some gorgeous playing on it. Particularly Roy's acoustic guitar work which I have always been in awe of. And the jazz interlude in the middle is... inspired. Great. By the way, The Roy Wood page at http://starling.rinet.ru/music/roywood.htm says that "Miss Clarke..." is the BEST SONG from "Boulders," for which they give a very fine review. I don't agree (I like "All The Way Over The Hill!"). The Move was a pop band if you live in the UK and a rock band if you're in the US. ********** Subject: Interesting web site Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 00:57:35 -0700 From: Richard Messum If everyone has finished abusing me (for the time being, anyway ;-)) you might be interested in having a look at http://starling.rinet.ru/music/roywood.htm. It has a very good (un-biased) overview of his career and includes a (non-comprehensive) discography with reviews. In fact, if you substitute "index.htm" for "roywood.htm" in the URL, a veritable garden of earthly delights awaits, as loads of other performers receive the same treatment. Happy surfing. ********** Subject: Re: Tell us the news about yourself... Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 11:56:46 -0700 From: Neil Pickford I don't know if any of the following is of interest, but this is part of my life with the Move: >Your name, age, location, occupation. Neil Pickford, 47, Yorkshire, Writer >How long have you been a Move and/or Roy Wood fan? Move fan since 1967 (35 years, b'gad) >What was your first Move related experience? Caught 'Flowers in the Rain' as the first song on Radio 1 (immediately after the irritating Arnold barking and twice-as-irritating Tony Blackburn welcoming us all to the new 'pop' station. If it hadn't been the Move playing I might never have listened to Radio 1 again. Bought Brontosaurus in the glorious days when you got three singles for £1 (6/8 each). >Tell us about your top 5 favorite Move related tracks. In order.... Brontosaurus Tonight Down on the Bay California Man Turkish Tram Conductor Blues >What's your favorite Move related album, and why? Message from the Country. So very, very different, marvellous and unusual instrumentation (who else used the oboe in rock?) and some very strange memories involving a certain young lady and.... disappointment. >What topics would you like to see discussed on this list? Just keep the variety coming - it's all refreshing stuff coupled with expert info. Nice mix. >If you've seen the Move or any member of the Move in concert, tell us >about that show. Saw one of the very first Electric Light Orchestra gigs, in Bristol, when half the audience thought they were going to be the Radio 2/Light Service orchestra and walked out when Roy in his white wig looking very weird kicked it off. Jeff's Boogies were great. Sound was very difficult but it all clicked when they did a version of Great Balls of Fire (a bit different to the one on the commemorative CD from last year). Still clear in my mind. Met Roy Wood three times backstage - twice with Wizzard and once with Big Band. He always made time to chat and answer questions. The first meeting came when a friend and I had received a letter from the infamous Don Arden which we waved at Rick Price and blagged our way to the back of Cheltenham Town Hall in the afternoon as the band was unpacking. Marvellous few hours with the entire band, drinking far too much beer in the local Berni and then a rocking performance which ended up with Wizzard and the bouncers in a pitched battle (the bouncers started it). It was sparked off when several bouncers came onstage during the encore to try and get the audience to go back from the stage - swearing and kicking out. Roy kicked the lead prick into the audience (mostly 13 year old girls, I think) and he emerged somewhat battered and torn, spittin' blood. He and his mates tried to storm the stage and thump Roy so a few members of the band (no names to protect the guilty) ran off while others squared up leading to scuffles all over the stage. If I remember correctly Nick Pentelow was going to thump one of them with his sax but realised that was a bad plan and used his fists instead, Charlie Grima and/or t'other drummer (Rick Smart?) used drumsticks to rap a solo on another bouncer's head, Rick Price was generally protective and Roy was there, swinging his guitar by the neck and threatening to wrap it around whichever over-muscled creep came near him. The show ended at that point, but the band reigned on stage. The bouncers were blamed in next day's paper - very surprising in those days when rock/pop bands were still regarded as dangerous social outcasts. >Tell us about an amusing or interesting situation that has happened >as a >result of you being a Move/Roy Wood fan. Andy, my previously-mentioned friend and I rang the telephone number given as part of the title on the b side of Ball Park Incident (Carlsberg Special, pianos demolished, tel XXXXXX) and found we were talking to pianist Bill Hunt - big thrill - lovely guy. This led, months later, to the meeting at the gig in Cheltenham. Before the gig Andy, who worked at a local magic/hobby shop, managed to sell nearly £30 of stock to Wizzard, floating cane, enormous teddy-boy comb, lion's head with very long mane, etc. Roy paid for it all by cheque then and there and both of us agonised about framing the cheque rather than cashing it. But, hey, £30 was a FORTUNE back in 1972. If anyone can remember Wizzard's Top of the Pops performances while See My Baby Jive and Angel Fingers were in the charts you might recall some of these props appearing with the band. Were we two lads proud, or did we walk on the clouds? >Who are some of your other favorite artists/bands? Led Zeppelin, Kinks, Who, ELO, Hendrix, Beatles >Which Move related song do you wish one of your favorite bands would >cover? You can't improve on perfection - the original versions are not only what they are, they are also part of a forever-gone moment in time and experience. >What is the one burning question that you have never had answered >in >relation to Move/Roy Wood history or music? Did the fade-out of Brontosaurus rob us of another five minutes of glorious jamming, or did the band fall over about two seconds later? >Are you having trouble finding any Move related music on CD? Not easy, but I've got everything except Something Else on CD so I can't complain. ********** Subject: Reminder: LIGHT!Fest East Coast in just about two weeks (August 17 & 18, 2002 in Baltimore)... Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:55:30 -0700 From: Steve Rifkin LIGHT!Fest East Coast 2002 is just around the corner... In just about two weeks, it'll be time for our latest ELO, Move, Jeff Lynne, Roy Wood, Idle Race, Orchestra and-related-artists fan get-together. LIGHT!Fest East Coast will be held Sat. and Sun. August 17 & 18, 2002 in Baltimore, Maryland. The format will be similar to the previous LIGHT!Fests held in Baltimore and the mid-west U.S. area. Saturday's festivities begin at 10am and run through late in the evening. Sunday's festivities begin at 10am and run til sometime around 5 to 6pm. We've had lots of responses... and this looks to be a great LIGHT!Fest :-) If you haven't already responded but are planning to attend, please contact me soon. We want to get a head count together of who is attending, which will help us in planning. If you're traveling into Baltimore from out of state and need help with travel info (airport info, transportation, etc), please let me know. All the LIGHT!Fests have been very successful, and there really is a lot of Move and Roy Wood material out there nowadays. And with so much of it on display to hear and see (audio, video, articles, books, and other memorabilia) and lots of fans to meet and chat with, this one is sure to be the best! If you've never been to a LIGHT!Fest, you're in for a treat. If any of you have been to one, what did you think of it? We hope to see you there again! Sponsored by LIGHT!, LIGHT!Fest is open to all fans of The Move, Roy Wood, ELO, Orchestra, etc. Remember, you don't have to be a member or LIGHT! to attend; you just have to have a love for this great music! And, as in previous years, LIGHT!Fest is free (except for your transportation)! For more details or to R.S.V.P, please call or e-mail me at steve410@erols.com or check out the LIGHT! website ( http://www.erols.com/steve410/elo/light/lightfest.html ) Thanks, and hope to see you there! Steve Rifkin, Coordinator of LIGHT!, the North American ELO fan club. End of Useless Information #376 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]