[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #436 January 9, 2003 In this issue: * Roy's natural progression? (cont.) * Bev Bevan on Tony Iommi "Rock Legends" programme * No royalties * Song Of The Week (week of 1/6): "What?" * Tell us the news about yourself... * Older digests * Wizzo Band on BBC's "Dream Ticket" (cont.) * Introduction (cont.) ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:20:27 -0800 From: kakman1 After thinking about this more, I remember a posting to this list earlier, where it was mentioned that "Eddy and The Falcons" was originally meant to be a double long player set. One disc would have the familiar rock'n'roll pastiches that we all know and love, and the second disc would be more jazz-fusion numbers presented as a faux live recording at a night club complete with an emcee. This may info may be from Rick Price via Rob or Lynn, not sure. Perhaps, if the full out "Introducing Eddy And The Falcons" is released in the next couple of years (or less), the evolution in Roy's music will become more clear. It seems to me more and more that in the seventies, Woody used rock'n' roll and pop to pay the bills but his heart was more into big band and jazz fusion; he also seem enamoured of what Steely Dan was doing on their records and wanted the freedom to be able to pull off something as equally mature and clever without having to pander to the teenybopper crowd anymore. Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression? Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 13:18:31 -0800 From: "David Woodier" > Here's one for the list - when do you all think each album was > recorded? Can you hear a natural progression in Roy's music from > album to album (and don't forget non-album a & b-sides)? Does it all > fit together or does it move around too much? Rob - Obviously said by a man who has 'inside' knowledge! I think it has been identified many times that Boulders and Message were both around the same time, as for the rest there are probably tracks from the same sessions covering more than one album? I would guess after the above two: Brew 1st, then Mustard with Main Street and SAW at the same time, On the road was around a year or so before release and Starting Up early/mid 80's. However I do not think Roy thinks natural progression, he does what he feels is right at the time (given Record Company/Contract etc constraints) - hence the jazzy feel of the mid 70's. Both OTRA and SU are pop albums, they just use different technologies and instrumentation 'IMO'. Mustard is just too diverse to be a progression. Having said that, if you categorise the types of songs on Boulders/Mustard/ONTRA/SU you would probably get one ach, Roys interpretations of the following styles - pop, comedy, jazz, swing, 'nationality' and just Woodyisms!! And what about Big Girls Blues and Spektacular - both heard recently but could you call them a progression, I think it is as I said before Roy enjoys doing what he wants to do, when he wants to do it! > It is sad that there is no new album or single from Roy but also just > as sad is the scarcity and unavailability of his catalogue. I'm sure Roy has sufficient unreleased songs to fill an album or two, is it down to finance? Would it not be possible for EMI or whoever to release a bonus CD of new material with some of the scheduled back catalogue? At least it would show Roy's talent old and new to those yet to be hooked? ********** Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression? Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 02:13:46 -0800 From: "Rob Caiger" Dave Woodier wrote: >I'm sure Roy has sufficient unreleased songs to fill an album or two... Or four... >...is it down to finance? No. >Would it not be possible for EMI or whoever to release a bonus CD of >new material with some of the scheduled back catalogue? One of the (many) suggestions is a brand new CD in addition to unreleased material (which would fit better as bonus tracks on remastered albums and a box set). Or a new track on each of the proposed Best Of collections. The offer is there - is the material? Lets see if we get the back catalogue available first... Hopefully, some positive announcements soon. ********** Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression? And no new stuff? Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:34:10 -0800 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Rob & all, I'm addressing the second item in Rob's post, about it being sad that there is no new stuff from Roy. I realize it is standard procedure for an recording artist to secure a deal with a label that can advance money to finance an album. However, many "older" artists, who no longer sell tons of records, are now recording and releasing new stuff for their die hard fans and making it available via the internet. An example is Dave Edmunds, who did just this last year. We know Roy has a home studio. Has he ever considered doing something like this? An album of all these songs we keep hearing in live and demo form finally seeing the light of day as a complete new album would be a wonderful addition to his canon! And how about that live album that's been shelved for way too long? I'm sure folks on this list, and those who would know about it by extension, would support such efforts enthusiastically! Somebody go put a bee in Roy's bonnet about this... Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression? And no new stuff? Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:36:05 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" Roy should release a new CD. Even if only from the net. He has a good band, new songs and us poor people waiting to buy it. He may not make a lot of money out of it but i still bet it would sell well. He could sell it at the gigs he is doing. He should have done this at New York, i bet the fans would have loved the chance to get a new CD at the show. I see a lot of bands do this now. ********** Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression? Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:15:20 -0800 From: "Richard Kenworthy" Rob C wrote > It is sad that there is no new album or single from Roy but also just > as sad is the scarcity and unavailability of his catalogue. I saw a programme on BBC1 last night about Dolly Parton. (not my usual music interest, but interesting none the less.) She has released 72 albums, but she has always been switched on to the Business side of the music business importantly she always kept ownership of her song catalogue. Dave Clark of the Dave Clarke 5 also did the same. I assume it is now too late for Roy to buy out all ownership of the catalogue, if it could be found, and even if it were the cost might be prohibitive. A good manager in the early days would have been very useful. Presumably it would have meant receiving a smaller advance or royalty originally, but control in the longer term. Richard NP the Christmas tree session ********** Subject: Re: Roy's natural progression? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:02:31 -0800 From: Bob Hughes Richard Kenworthy wrote: >She has released 72 albums, but she has always been switched on to the >Business side of the music business importantly she always kept ownership >of her song catalogue. Dave Clark of the Dave Clarke 5 also did the same. Dave Clark may own all his masters, but as far as I know, none of his stuff is currently in print. ********** Subject: Bev Bevan on Tony Iommi "Rock Legends" programme Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 01:01:30 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins This Friday's "Rock Legends" on Carlton TV pays homage to Black Sabbath guitarist Tony Iommi and looks back at his history with one of the greatest heavy metal bands of all time. The programme features an interview with Bev Bevan, Tony's long-time Birmingham mate. In 1983, when Sabbath drummer Bill Ward was too ill to go on the road, Bev stepped in to help. He toured with the band until Bill's return in 1984. Bev then joined Sabbath in the studio in '87 for the recording of their "The Eternal Idol" album. A few years later, Bev, Tony and Jasper Carrott formed the part-time band Belch (and keep threatening to re-form!) This is the second programme in the new eight-part series of "Rock Legends" which focuses on the Midlands music scene and pays tribute to some of the most successful musical artists to come out of the region. The series is hosted by Noddy Holder. You may recall Roy Wood was the subject of a "Rock Legends" programme in January 2002, featuring an interview with Rick Price, and the recording of a new Roy Wood's Army track, "Spektacular." The programme looked at Roy's career through The Move, ELO and Wizzard, and took viewers back to Roy's old stomping grounds. The Tony Iommi "Rock Legends" programme airs this Friday, 10 January, at 10.30pm on Carlton TV, Central Region. Upcoming programmes in the series include Mott the Hoople on 24 January and Slade in March. For those interested, here's some additional information about the show from Carlton TV's website: As founding member of Black Sabbath and architect of such classic riffs as Black Sabbath, Paranoid and War Pigs, Tony Iommi was - and is - the acknowledged progenitor of heavy rock guitar. His unique style and much copied sound have had a profound influence on succeeding generations of guitarists, and many of the leading bands of today owe more than a passing allegiance to the Black Sabbath sound as defined by Tony Iommi. Host Noddy Holder recently received an honourary degree, along with his old bandmates from Slade, from Wolverhampton University. He was also awarded the MBE in the Millennium Honours List two years ago. But he's not too busy to present another series of "Rock Legends." Says Noddy: "It's great to be back presenting a series which highlights talent from our region and gives viewers the chance to gain an insight into the lives of some of the Midlands most famous musical names." Last month, "Rock Legends won the prestigious RTS Midlands Award for Best Entertainment Programme for their film about Birmingham reggae band UB40. Producer Philip Ranjit Basi says: "The second series of 'Rock Legends' gives viewers another opportunity to revel in the glory days of the fondly remembered musicians from the Midlands. From hard rockers to crooners, we've got them all here." "Rock Legends" is a Carlton production. The producer/director is Philip Ranjit Basi. The executive producer is Duncan Rycroft. ********** Subject: No royalties Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:49:11 -0800 From: Harold Montgomery Lynn wrote: > I urge you not to waste your money on these, and not to support > interests that don't pay artist royalties. Rob is working with EMI > on a DVD that will be done right. :) Thank God for Rob. A dream come true some Roy/Move on DVD!!!!!! How is the Fillmore CD coming along? ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "What?" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 21:35:13 -0800 From: John DeSilva This one is very interesting to me in the context of how I discovered the Move. I had already heard the first ELO album, "Split Ends" (so most of MFTC), 'Shazam' and "The Best Of The Move" by the time I heard "Looking On". So I had heard "The Words Of Aaron", "Down On The Bay", "No Time", "Nellie Takes Her Bow", etc. before hearing "What?" - maybe that prepared me for what was possible from Jeff Lynne in terms of unique song structures and cryptic, evocative lyrical content. I was fascinated by "What?" back when I was 13, and I still love it today. I hear Idle Race influence filtered with a heaviness that Roy, Rick, and Bev brought to the party as the "new Move". It's like the prequel to "10538 Overture" - listen to the two songs together and see if you hear a continuity across the two songs. Musically I'm a fan of heavy, and the embryonic form of that dreaded beast PROG ROCK (shudder shudder) ... although this is less prog and more classically-oriented pop (kinda like the Electric Light Orchestra maybe???). The bass is absolutely MONSTEROUS on this track, and the guitar solo snakes around the melody line nicely before the thunder of the guitar and bass line pounding out the chorus in unison. Finally "What?" is one of many examples of why Bev Bevan is in the upper echelon of rock drummer excellence - in fact (nearly) the whole "Looking On" album is a showcase for Bev's massive drumming talent. In closing, I dig this track!!!! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "What?" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 17:34:22 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" I think this was not up to the quality Lynne can do. I think he made a move (No pun intended) as far has he could from what he wrote with the Idle Race and the lyrics were not in the same class. Check out the second Idle Race lp all the songs are better than this. I think this was the Moves worst LP. It is still a very good LP but not the best place to start for any new fans. It clicked with MFTC which is great. This lp always seems to have been rushed and What? is too long and lumbers on a bit to much. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "What?" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:34:31 -0800 From: Mike F John DeSilva wrote: > Musically I'm a fan of heavy, and the embryonic form of that dreaded > beast PROG ROCK (shudder shudder) ... although this is less prog and > more classically-oriented pop (kinda like the Electric Light > Orchestra maybe???). The bass is absolutely MONSTEROUS on this > track, and the guitar solo snakes around the melody line nicely > before the thunder of the guitar and bass line pounding out the > chorus in unison. I basically agree with John's comments. I would add that the band got that really powerful sound by hitting the key chords with electric guitar, acoustic guitar, piano, and bass guitar simultaneously. I give them extra points for creating that mini-choir sound for the backing vocals. It gives it that ethereal quality that Kevin mentioned. All of these overdubs would have been fairly tricky because they were probably limited to something like eight tracks at the time. I think it is an interesting composition and probably my favorite on the album but at over six minutes it does start to get a little repetitive. With respect to the lyrics, Jeff has said in interviews that for ELO he would have the music done and would make up the lyrics at the last minute while driving to the studio. Like a lot of his lyrics, they sound good while the song is playing but don't always hold up to careful analysis. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "What?" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:13:49 -0800 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" "What?" is an apt title for this rather dreary low point from "Looking On"...I still mutter "'WHAT?' was Jeff thinking when he wrote this dirge?" It does have sections that keep it from being a totally abysmal effort, such as Roy's solo and some fine stick-work from Bev here and there, as well as the nice choir-like touch toward the end. But, over all, this is one I usually skipped over back in 1970 and still do today. Glad Jeff got it together for the brilliant "Open Up Said The World At The Door" that opened side 2, though. Wizzards, Tyler ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "What?" Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:50:51 -0800 From: "Jeff Cooper" The very first Jeff Lynne penned Move song that I ever heard way back in the late 70s when I was catching up on what I missed in the 60s early 70s and becoming a fully fledged Move fan. I'll never forget the weird feeling I got hearing this wonderfully ethereal track - completely different to the earlier /commercial (?) Move songs I'd heard before. I really love this song and every time I hear it (have been playing a bit of back catalogue Move at home lately) it just takes me back in time and gives me goosebumps. My favourite Jeff Lynne Move song if only for hugely sentimental reasons... ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "What?" Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:55:31 -0800 From: marmil (Marc) OK, now that we know the words, any idea what they mean?? ********** Subject: Tell us the news about yourself... Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:52:11 -0800 From: "Steve Ball" Hello everyone & thanks Lynn for the invitation to participate. I'm Steve Ball, 40 from Leeds In the UK & self - employed. Thinking back I've probably been a Move/Roy Wood fan since I got my first single In 1971 or 1972 which was Tonight. I'm pretty sure I got 10538 Overture at the same time. The first Move album I had was Best Of The Move Vol 1 , which was one of those Woolworths budget LPs of the time. Soon after I got the Move/Shazam double reissue followed by my favourite, The Roy Wood Story. I suppose at the time it saved me from tracking down a lot of singles . It's the one that got played the most, so much that now it's just a mass of clicks & jumps! Favourite tracks would have to be Omnibus, Useless Information, I Can Hear The Grass Grow, Rock City, Forever & many more. Least favourites would have to be Zing Went The Strings of My Heart & What? But there's not many that I don't like. I'm looking forward to the CD reissues & the DVD. Hopefully the Colour Me Pop show will be included in full. I'm especially looking forward to hearing Message From The Country again after losing it years ago. Other Music acts I'm into include The Kinks, The Times, Donovan, TV Personalities & most 60s Psych/Freakbeat/Flower Power stuff. Thanks for now Steve Ball ********** Subject: Re: Tell us the news about yourself... Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:30:02 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" >Soon after I got the Move/Shazam double reissue followed by my favourite, >The Roy Wood Story. Welcome Steve, The Roy Wood Story - I remember rushing up to town on my 15th birthday to get it after school. I am lucky i taped my copy at the time. It is still mint, only played twice! By then i have got all the singles on it except 4 Move singles, When granma (which i have to this day never found) and Mike Sheridan. ********** Subject: Older digests Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:51:35 -0800 From: Gmcorie Lynn, i was about to email you about the on the road again cd. looking back at some of the older move-digests from aug 02 01 Rob said the cd's were in the preparation stage. how can i go back farther in the digests? louisiana george ********** Subject: Re: Older digests Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2003 21:59:28 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins >how can i go back farther in the digests? George, All of 2002 is archived here: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html Scroll down to the bottom of the page for the link to the archives. These are digests, archived by year/month/date. They're assembled by hand, so there's no excessive quoted text or HTML to scroll through. I'm working on 2001 as I can find the time. Hopefully all of the 2002 digests should keep you busy for a bit! :) ********** Subject: Re: Wizzo Band on BBC's "Dream Ticket" Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2003 00:20:05 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" I used to have a cassette i recorded at the time from radio 2 which trasmitted the concert at the same time in stereo as the TV program. It died 5 years ago. Sob! It was a cracking concert i would love to see-hear it again. I remember as well Dr Feelgood and Ian Dury and the Blockheads on the Sight And Sound show they were great too. Alas they never repeated it, i wish they would show the lot again. A DVD set of all the shows would be amazing but i bet it will never happen. ********** Subject: Re: Wizzo Band on BBC's "Dream Ticket" Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:15:43 -0800 From: "Richard Kenworthy" For the last three days I have kept on trying to access the Dream ticket for Jan 1st, but it has been unavailable. I don't see a link to access the concert originally broadcast on Sunday. Any clues anyone? ********** Subject: Re: Wizzo Band on BBC's "Dream Ticket" Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:01:54 -0800 From: "Bob Samuel" Richard - you have to try the day before or the day after - I forget which. It took me a while to track it down. :-) ********** Subject: Re: Introduction Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 01:34:38 -0800 From: Mike F Lynn wrote: >Mike, it's interesting that your initiation was "10538 Overture" and >then you went on to Boulders, and back to the beginning of The Move, >but haven't yet experienced the fourth Move album, "Message From The >Country." This wasn't really by design. I was keeping my eyes open for Roy / Move stuff and happened to find the first 3 Move albums (Movements - 30th Anniversary Anthology on West Side) used for only USD $15.99. I also found a used "Boulders" on vinyl for USD $2.99. Now that I can't find any more used Move stuff, I am ordering some things from Amazon. >Of course you might hate it, but if "10538" was what attracted you to >The Move and Roy Wood, then I *think* you will love "Message." Some >people refer to it as the first ELO album. I also think you'd like >The Idle Race, Jeff Lynne's band before he joined The Move. Very >quirky. I am sure I will get to these eventually. My wife would kill me if I ordered all of these albums at once. >As "Shazam" and "Looking On" aren't your cup of tea, I'm real >interested in what you'll think of some of the more obscure Roy Wood >tracks on "Exotic Mixture." I am definitely looking forward to hearing "Exotic Mixture" especially if it goes in a more experimental direction on some tracks. I will post some comments when it finally arrives. I ordered it from Amazon on Dec. 3 and it's scheduled to ship sometime between Jan. 8 - 22. Not exactly instant gratification but I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. ********** Subject: Re: Introduction Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:14:26 -0800 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Mike, Since you seem to leaning toward Roy's more experimental side, are you aware of his foray into jazz-rock "Super Active Wizzo"? It's pretty obscure & tough to find. Roy has joked that it probably sold about 10 copies. However, it is well worth seeking out as it contains some very fine jazz-flavored guitar playing by Roy, a dynamic horn section, mad-man drumming by Dave Donovan and at times a slight country twist via pedal steel played by Rick Price. Many on this list don't "get" what Roy was trying to do on this album but it is a significant phase of his career and very interesting to listen to. An acquired taste, for sure. If you can't find it and really want to hear it let me know. I've been looking for an excuse to transfer the vinyl to CD-R and would be happy to send you a copy. Wizzards, Tyler End of Useless Information #436 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]