[This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.] USELESS INFORMATION The Move Mailing List Digest Issue #440 January 31, 2003 In this issue: * "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner (cont.) * Song Of The Week (week of 1/27): "Useless Information" * Best Carl & Roy lead vocals on 'Move' * First Light Releases * Bev Bevan on Rock Legends ============================================================== To POST TO THE LIST: Send an e-mail to: move-list@eskimo.com Move List Info & Archives: http://www.eskimo.com/~noanswer/movelist.html TO UNSUBSCRIBE: Send an e-mail to move-digest-request@eskimo.com with the word "unsubscribe" (no quotes) in the subject line ============================================================== Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 02:06:48 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" I heard the Amen Corner first on a lp i used to have in the early 70's before i tracked down a copy of Shazam. It was only credited to Wood. So i did not at first connect it to Roy till i got Shazam. I must be honest and say i hated the Amen Corner track. I remember looking at Shazam when i first got it and thinking Oh my god its that crap Amen Corner song. I put the first side on and was all but cringing thinking i hope this lp ain't all going to be like that awful song. I remember my jaw hit the floor as the intro kicked in. It stuned me for a few seconds (I had only a few Move singles at that time and it was the time of Wizzard maybe 74). Then a big smile appeared on my face. I then really sat up and took notice of the Move, getting all the lp's they made and singles. When Alice being the last i got. That took some finding in mint too! Bob Hughes wrote: >It's OK, but its not the MOVE. It doesn't have that menacing >unintelligible Roy voice, nor does it have Bev's bashing. It's just >a pop song, not a STATEMENT. Too right Bob, i think it was not suited to the treatment of the Amen Corner. It just dont work. It is a Rock song, not a Soul record. Dont get me wrong i liked a lot of the Amen Corner singles but this one sucks big style. ********** Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 15:15:19 -0800 From: "Greg Weatherby" marmil wrote: > It's really no contest. I've had both versions for a long time and the > Move wins hands down! Now, is the Move version a cover??? Now, I don't know about that, and really, it's just semantics, innit? But what I do know is that as of last night, my server reports 84 downloads of "Hello Susie" by the Amen Corner, so there are a few more of you lot out there that have said nowt about HS! It's time! And, if you want to d/l it, now's the time, as I will delete it tomorrow sometime. ********** Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:16:20 -0800 From: kakman1 Amen Corner's version is too hyper, too nasal, too sugary, too dreadful. Way prefer Roy's loud lusty raucous vocals, the heavy heavy rock guitar and precise loud drums of the Move. Before they recorded this for "Shazam", wasn't this number performed live a lot in '69, especially during the U.S. dates? Kevin Kunreuther (recovering) in Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:19:45 -0800 From: "James Towill" Difficult one to call really. Amen Corner's version is far more commercial to my ears, and it was this one which I heard before the Move's version (it doesn't matter anyway, I was born in 1978!). I very much like both versions. Amen Corner's version is superb, great brass! The Move's version is wonderfully heavy, great bass, just a shame the editing hadn't been done a bit more carefully after Bev's 'solo' in the middle, but that's just nit-picking. Incidentally, Andy Fairweather-Low was touring with Roger Waters last year, and is on the superb live album 'In the Flesh' playing bass and guitar. Also worth checking out is the Fairweather (the successor to Amen Corner) album 'Beginning From An End' (available on Repertoire records) - check out Natural Sinner (Top 10 Hit in 1970) and the album track Poor Man's Bum A Rum - amazing brass and a great jazzy feel to the whole track. ********** Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 00:41:55 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" Bob Hughes wrote: >It's OK, but its not the MOVE. It doesn't have that menacing >unintelligible Roy voice, nor does it have Bev's bashing. It's just >a pop song, not a STATEMENT. Too right Bob, i think it was not suited to the treatment of the Amen Corner. It just dont work. It is a Rock song, not a Soul record. Dont get me wrong i liked a lot of the Amen Corner singles but this one sucks big style. ********** Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:30:10 -0800 From: PrimoChuck Who had the better version of "Hello Susie" the Move or Amen Corner? I would definitely be in the Move's corner. I would use the word bubblegum to describe Amen Corner, while the Move's version had such great guitar work. bass and vocals. Now, if Roy Wood's Army recorded this song, would they be covering Amen Corner's version? I think the Army might sound a bit closer to Amen Corner's version, but Roy would have a better brass arrangement as I think there are parts of the AC version that sound a bit too cute rather than soulful. Charlie Long Beach, CA ********** Subject: Re: "Hello Susie" by Amen Corner Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:30:55 -0800 From: kakman1 "James Towill" writes: >Also worth checking out is the Fairweather (the successor to Amen >Corner) album 'Beginning From An End' (available on Repertoire >Records) - check out Natural Sinner (Top 10 Hit in 1970) Does anyone know when Repertoire Records website will be completed or is the label more or less out of business now and maintaining the website for appearances sake, much like Roxio is keeping Napster's website in a holding pattern? Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:49:30 -0800 From: "Tyler C.Sherman" Jeff Lonto wrote: > Get your boots and your astrakhan... I always thought the line was "Get your boots and your astro-cap", as in a sort of space helmet or something. Anyway, a very cool tune with it's soaring melody and Beach Boys cum Beatles-style background vocals. Those background vocals are even more stunning in the stereo version of this song that exists on vinyl, but as far as I know, not on CD yet. All the essential Move elements are in place on this one-dynamic drums, thundering bass, puzzling lyrics, jangly guitar, fantastic vocals. One their best! ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:50:31 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" Jeff Lonto has put lyrics right. Came out in mono and stereo versions in the UK. I prefer the mono version of the lp myself. This track was one of a few tracks which were not in fake stereo on stereo lp. Great song opens side 2 of lp nicely. Great backing vocals and some nice guitar work. Love Ace's bass on the outtro of song. He was one of the best bass players around at that time and came up with some great bass runs on the Move stuff. All in all perfect! ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:50:57 -0800 From: "Richard Shaw" Lynn wrote: >I guess astrakhan was the only item of clothing Roy could think of >that rhymes with weatherman. With Roy, he probably had 'astrakhan' in mind first and then decided on 'weatherman' as the rhyme. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 18:19:01 -0800 From: Richard Messum This one is very typical Move: nice and poppy on the surface, but with sinister undertones in the lyrics. Great stuff. (Love these SOTWs: i'll listen to the song for half the evening in an attempt to write some precise and pithy commentary and the best i can come up with is "great stuff." But at least i get to listen to the song for half the evening!) Incidentally, who is it saying "Isn't it amazing" on this? It reminds me very much of the way that one of Mott the Hoople speaks the words "All the way from Memphis" on their song of that name. ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:13:31 -0800 From: marmil Marc Miller Richard - >Incidentally, who is it saying "Isn't it amazing" on this? It reminds me >very much of the way that one of Mott the Hoople speaks the words "All the >way from Memphis" on their song of that name. Yeah, they do sound the same - I never thought of that! Thanks!! ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 01:30:20 -0800 From: John DeSilva I love this song - it's one of the great true stereo songs featured on A&M's "Best Of The Move", taken from the first Move LP (and where I first heard it). The bass on this song is absolutely stellar (and proof positive just how important Ace was to the Move's sound), and it has another of the wonderful bridges that Roy must be able to knock off in his sleep (how does he come up with these gems?). Lyrically Woody comes up with a subject that is quite applicable to today's world. In fact - if Pete Townshend's "Lifehouse" really predicted the Internet (that's a big if), then "Useless Information" could be credited with correctly predicting what much of the content of the Internet would be (albeit 3 years before "Lifehouse"). Hey, but without all this useless information, us trivia buffs would have nothing to talk about! ;-D Finally, Woody makes his contribution to exotic clothing references in pop music with his "astrakhan" lyric - joining "striped djellebas" from "Marrakesh Express", "Leopard-Skin Pillbox Hat" from Mr. Dylan's song of the same name, "Blue Suede Shoes" from the late, great Carl Perkins, and of course the "Itsy Bitsy Teeny Weeny Yellow Polka-Dot Bikini" from whoever the hell wrote that one!! Taken together that's one weird outfit! (I'll bet Lil' Kim's worn it though!! ;-D). Great song above all else - thanks for listening! JD San Jose, CA ********** Subject: Re: Song Of The Week: "Useless Information" Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 02:11:35 -0800 From: Mike F I think the song is very good simply because it has a great lead vocal melody throughout. Not just for the verses and choruses but for the middle eight and coda as well. Although the arrangement and band performance are fine, I think it would work equally well with just one singer and an acoustic guitar due to the strength of the tune. Most great songwriters go through a learning process writing simplistic "Love Me Do" type songs before they really hit their stride. The thing that amazes me about Roy is that he produced so many fully realized pop gems like this on his first album. A few more words on the song itself. The background vocals are good. They start off simple but vary and grow more complex as the song progresses which adds interest to the track. The idea of a song about "Useless Information" is quite good and the lyrics are fine but not really outstanding. Not that it matters, I never realized what most of the lyrics were until I read Lynn's email. ********** Subject: Best Carl & Roy lead vocals on 'Move' Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:16:56 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Whenever there's Song Of The Week discussion, list members comment on how good they think the lead vocals are. Just out of curiosity, if someone were to ask you which song on the first Move album is Carl's best lead vocal work, what would your answer be? And what about Roy's lead vocals...which song on 'Move' best showcases his singing ability? (When you name a song for Carl and Roy, perhaps you can also let the list know WHY you think it's their best, and whether there's a certain part they sing that you especially like.) ********** Subject: Re: Best Carl & Roy lead vocals on 'Move' Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:29:01 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" A hard one this. Roy i would think 'Fire Brigade' also have Carl on the early version. Roy's is better, it just sounds great and i dont think any one could sing it better. (Sorry Carl). Now restricting Carl to the first LP makes it very hard. We all know his best vocals came after this lp. And what of Ace and Trevor they sung some great songs on this lp. OK Carl i will have to say 'Useless Information', but his great voice still only gets a limited use of range on this song too. This was soon to change after this lp. Something and Shazam! ********** Subject: Re: Best Carl & Roy lead vocals on 'Move' Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:23:02 -0800 From: Mike F Lynn wrote: >Whenever there's Song Of The Week discussion, list members comment on >how good they think the lead vocals are. Lynn, I don't know if you were referring in part to my comment on "Useless Information": >I think the song is very good simply because it has a great lead vocal >melody throughout. I realize I probably didn't make my point clearly. I wasn't referring to Carl's singing performance but the vocal melody itself which was composed by Roy. The tune could be sung by another good singer or even played on piano and it would still be a nice melody. So while Carl undoubtedly does a great job singing on "Useless Information," I was suggesting that Roy's songwriting is the key. ********** Subject: Re: Best Carl & Roy lead vocals Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 23:25:08 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins Mike F wrote: >I realize I probably didn't make my point clearly. I wasn't referring >to Carl's singing performance but the vocal melody itself which was >composed by Roy. The tune could be sung by another good singer or even >played on piano and it would still be a nice melody. So while Carl >undoubtedly does a great job singing on "Useless Information," I was >suggesting that Roy's songwriting is the key. Mike, No, no...I wasn't referring to your post. I was suggesting a discussion topic: What is everyone favorite's Carl lead vocal & Roy lead vocal on the first Move album? I was just curious, that's all. We've been doing "song of the week" on this list since 1997 and whenever a track from the first album is discussed someone will comment on the lead vocals... an interesting topic in itself because sometimes we're not entirely sure who's singing lead! The "classic five" lineup of The Move consisted of 5 musicians all capable of handling lead vocals. (Yes, even Bev! :) How many groups can you say that about? For Carl, I'm particularly fond of his singing on "Useless Information." Especially the chorus where he's joined by Roy (and probably Trevor). This song really benefits from being sung by someone with Carl's range - I enjoy the way he starts out in a lower register and builds. And of course his phrasing is spot-on. For Roy, "Mist On A Monday Morning." I love his "regal" style of singing, which we hear again on "Look At Me Now" from the first Electric Light Orchestra album. Favorite part of the song: "Where's my wife, has she gone? I hear misty morning call..." Anyone else? ********** Subject: First Light Releases Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:26:30 -0800 From: "Andrew Ralph" I see from the Face The Music site and the Move online site that both ELO II and Message From the Country still have March 3 2003 given as release dates, which is good news. March 3 is less than 5 weeks away now, and I just wanted to ask Rob if everything is still going smoothly towards release on time. ********** Subject: Re: First Light Releases Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:26:50 -0800 From: Lynn Hoskins We just talked about when Message From The Country will be released... did you fall asleep at your computer? :) It won't be March. Think "Spring." ********** Subject: Re: First Light Releases Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:14:19 -0800 From: Richard Messum Lynn wrote: >We just talked about when Message From The Country will be >released... did you fall asleep at your computer? :) >It won't be March. Think "Spring." Well, according to the calendar, Spring begins in March, but i've lived in these northern climes for quite a few years now, and i know that in reality, as i trudge through early-April blizzards, spring begins at the end of April, lasts for a week or so, leads to a couple of weeks when it's too hot and is then followed by a few months of lousy weather before winter sets in again. But seriously, folks, if MFTC comes out in 2003 i'll be happy. Now, about "Live at the Fillmore".... ********** Subject: Re: First Light Releases Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:29:06 -0800 From: kakman1 We know nothing is set in stone, but I'm willing to bet on either April 1rst or April 8th, but when is the California Man Promo EP coming out? (Wouldn't it be a gas if Rob finds the 'lost' TOTP footage of The Move performing California Man and convincing EMI to include it as a secret Enhanced bonus on either the EP or MFTC CD? I'm harbouring a suspicion some stills from a certain 'lost' movie will be featured in MFTC booklet!) Kevin Kunreuther Dallas TX ********** Subject: Re: First Light Releases Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:09:24 -0800 From: "Andrew Footman" I bet he has the movie but is too scared to release it. Who knows he might put it on the enhanced California Man EP. Here's hoping anyway. I can remember them doing California Man on TOTP's. Crying shame the BBC wiped so much of the TOTP's shows. In fact the radio sessions of many great bands met the same end. I suppose they never expected anyone would want to hear them again. After all it was only Pop Music to them. ********** Subject: Bev Bevan on Rock Legends Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:26:04 -0800 From: "val burgess" Here is some info on the "Rock Legends" programme about Tony Iommi that featured an interview with Bev. It aired on Carlton TV in the UK 10 January. I haven't included everything that was said (except by Bev) or shown as it would have been too lengthy, but will be happy to send extra info on other contributors to the show at a later date, should anyone want it. Basically Bev is on six times and talks with humour and affection about Tony from earlier days and more recent. He starts off saying 'If anyone invented heavy metal music, it wasn't so much Black Sabbath, it was Tony Iommi.' Then 'Every Black Sabbath song is built around Tony's guitar riff's, Heavy Metal music is built around the guitar riff's, Tony really is the Godfather of Heavy Metal.Yeah.' About Birmingham... 'It's a pretty cool city now, but in the 60's it was the sort of place you de want to get away from, unless you became a footballer or a rock star, there wasn't much else, you were going to end up in a factory or something. So it was a good place to get away from.' About Tony being a prankster... 'One of the tricks he used to play, at the sound checks, he'd have all his amps set up and it was an absolute wall of sound and he'd have it all set up and he'd have it up to eleven on the guitar, you know? and he'd wait for some unsuspecting crew member to walk by in front of his amps and then just give it the full (sound effect by Bev) CLANGG!. It could actually physically knock the person off the stage, just the sheer volume of it, and he thought that was hilarious!!' About BELCH... 'For me, the greatest kick was to look around and see Tony playing something like a Hank Marvin guitar solo, it's terrific and he really enjoys it, and he smiles a lot at BELCH gigs, which he never did with Black Sabbath.' About Black Sabbath... You've got kids, literally kids, 10-12 years old and you've got people in their 50's and 60's and it's a generation of music,or maybe three generations of music now, it's ... and probably soon it will be four generations of music, and they're so established now, it's never gonna go away, their music's never gonna go away'. Other contributors to the programme were-; Ian Gillan (ex Deep Purple), Carol Clerk (Rock writer), Albert Chapman (former roadie), Taylor Hawkins and Dave Grohl (Foo Fighters) Glenn Hughes (ex Deep Purple) and of course Jasper Carrot, OBE(!!) Jasper was on several times too, but I wont go into all of it now, needless to say everything he said was very funny (or maybe I just need to get out more!!) The first thing he said about Tony was how creative he was/is, and stated that he had probably written half a dozen riff's before he had his morning muesli! He also said that the way he had come up with the name BELCH, The B was from Bevan, the EL from ELO, the C from Carrot and the H just followed somehow. For those interested in Tony. I would have to do a different post for his input (he's worth it, so I wouldn't mind!!) But basically he was talking about Aston, Birmingham, where he and the other BS members came from, saying how rough it was and felt that because of this it had made an impression on them musically. He said that he was always very shy and used to hide under his long hair and talk to Ozzy without lifting his head up (Bless!), He is not sure how many guitars he has but estimates 40 or 50, he likes them light so that he can stretch his fingers up to the top of the fret's because of his finger accident. The accident, which involved him losing the end of two fingers, happened when he was working in a factory with Albert Chapman's dad, it involved a guillotine. He learnt to use his little finger to play as a result of this. He made himself some tip's so that he could grip the strings out of a Fairy Liquid washing-up bottle. There was reference to Tony being the practical joker of the group and the various line-up changes, not too many details here except they showed the first vocalist to replace Ozzy, Dave Walker (a friend of Noddy Holder who was presenting the prog) singing 'Junior's Eyes (1978). Tony also made reference to 'The Osbournes' programme, saying that it really is how they are, nothing put on at all, saying 'People now know what we had to put up with for 35 years'!!. That's All Folks!! Apologies for any errors. I think that somewhere I may have the Rock Legends prog of Roy Wood (Yes. I'm an anorak). So at a later date if anyone is interested that may have missed it, I will do the same for that. Can I just say that Both Bev and Tony looked really lovely and come across as lovely down to earth humorous individuals who have withstood the ravages of time in the rock world incredibly well. Valb End of Useless Information #440 ******************************* [This digest is the copyright of the Move "Useless Information" Mailing List. Re-publication or re-distribution of "Useless Information" content, in any form whatsoever, is expressly prohibited without prior written consent.]