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SHOWDOWN The ELO Mailing List Digest Issue #002 October 8, 1997 In this issue: Bev Bevan - More than just a drummer ...and speaking of Bev Scott's ELO favorites Smoke On The Whopper (Joe gives Part II a chance) Part II CD recommendations ============================================================ ALL PUBLIC RESPONSES TO ARTICLES ON THIS LIST SHOULD BE SENT TO THE TALK LIST ADDRESS: elo-list@eskimo.com ============================================================ Subject: More than JUST a drummer... Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 11:22:30 +0000 From: Lynn Hoskins Adam John Vogt wrote: > Why should Beven have gotten so great a cut? He did no writing and > basically played the same beat all the time... > Hope this dosen't offend any drummers, but one only has to listen > to the albums to see that ELO was essentially a Lynne/Tandy > production, with a drummer and sometimes Kelly. Adam, I would have responded sooner, but I've been crying for three days since reading your post! ;) You didn't really mean to say that about Bev, did you? (Say no, or I'll get upset again.) I understand your point about the other musicians deserving a good cut. Of course they do! But, like someone else said, the musicians were paid. The 50/50 deal had to do with ownership... creative concept... the legal stuff that applies to businesses. Contracts and everyone else aside, the line, "...basically played the same beat all the time..." put me in a headspin. Bev's drumming career spans more than three decades. As has already been pointed out here, it was no easy task to play drums for The Move. I think maybe Bev was the only one who could keep up with Roy Wood's unusual songwriting style. (Listen to "Hello Susie" on The Move's first album and let me know what you think of the drummer. ;) When Bev moved on to ELO is when his drumming really exploded. I was in high school when the second album was released. "Roll Over Beethoven" created a HUGE splash in the states. My dad, who was a big band drummer and horn player before I was born, used to annoy the heck out of me by coming into my room and adjusting the mix of whatever I was in the middle of listening to so he could hear the drums and percussion better. Well, Bev's work on "Beethoven" absolutely floored him. This was not the work of "a drummer." In my dad's words, "That's a GREAT drummer!" Bev was incredible. I can't think of anyone else who could have pulled that off. Take a listen to "New World Rising" on "On The Third Day." Same beat all the time? Not by a long shot. If you're talking about his drumming on later ELO albums, keep in mind that there wasn't a lot of room for being creative. That wasn't Bev's fault. He did his job. He kept the beat. Over the years, people have said the same thing about Charlie Watts and Ringo. As mere listeners, I'm not sure we have the right to judge whether a drummer is good or not. Instead, ask the musicians they play with. When they lose their place, is the drummer keeping good time so they can find their way back immediately? In bands like The Beatles, The Stones and ELO, the drummer is the backbone...the anchor. Especially in the case of ELO where you have so much more going on than guitar, vocals, bass and keyboards. The drummer HAS to keep the beat, or everything will fall apart. ELO's mixture of rock and orchestra would have been a difficult challenge for any drummer. Bev invented a style that allowed him to keep that essential rock beat while at the same time providing the orchestra with powerful builds and beautifully timed percussion. Now, THAT'S a great drummer. Okay, I feel better now. ********** Subject: Re: More than JUST a drummer... Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 15:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: NYWRITER Re: Bev Bevan and drums....no one has yet to mention the term "double track" in reference to the way Lynne recorded Bevan's drumming. Ever single interview Bevan ever gave (I should know, I collected 'em and finally interviewed him, and later, Lynne myself) mentioned that the drums were double tracked. This meant that Bev had to play the exact same thing twice. The result was a simple pattern, but "thick" kind of sound. ********** Subject: Re: More than JUST a drummer... Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 21:58:41 +0000 From: Joe Ramsey NYWRITER wrote: > > Re: Bev Bevan and drums....no one has yet to mention the term "double > track" in reference to the way Lynne recorded Bevan's drumming. ...And every drummer that has had any studio experience knows how difficult this is. ********** Subject: ... And speaking of Bev Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 22:24:47 +0000 From: Joe Ramsey When I first got turned on to The Move, I remember thinking what a gas it would be if I ever got to see any of the members play live. It seemed like a pretty far-fetched idea at the time as the band had called it quits and the new project, The Electric Light Orchestra, seemed even a longer shot than the Move to tour the States (who knew??) Ironically, the first time I saw a Move member play was Trevor Burton, playing bass for the Steve Gibbons Band, far down on the list of support acts for the Who at Anaheim Stadium in a suburb of Los Angeles (Orange County). As much as I liked the Who, the whole reason that I went was to see Trevor with Gibbons - and I was lucky enough to have met him many years later to tell him this story. The first time the ELO came to Los Angeles, they opened the show for Hot Tuna and Joe Walsh. I was extremely excited to be there and I remember noticing every detail of the set-up and how the band performed. The first thing that struck me - and I was surprised, was that all the gear was rented and that every piece of Bevans drum kit had the huge stenciled letters "Rented from S.I.R. Studios" across them. But what I really thought was weird... was the way Bev held his left drum stick. Has anybody else noticed this? Since then, I've seen him in photos with the same grip - it's almost like the traditional jazz-type grip, but turned over. I pictured Bevan's drum style to be aggressive and very loud (a la John Bonham), but I don't think you can play THAT loud with this grip (although I could be wrong here). I tried it with my little practice set at home and wore a painful blister on the inside of my index finger. Ouch - don't try this at home! Let there be drums!! ********** Subject: ... And speaking of Bev Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 02:34:21 -0400 From: SERENA TORZ I've read somewhere that Bev's strange grip on his sticks is due to him having broken his wrist at some time or other. It's certainly odd, but that guy has HUGE hands, let me tell you - I've had my photo taken with him and one of those hands around my shoulder. I think even if he held those sticks just between finger and thumb, he'd be able to wallop those drums harder than most mere mortals! ********** Subject: You were talking of favorites.... Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:14:57 +0000 From: Scott Pierson Hello All: I must have missed the original message but I have noticed everyone going on about their favorites, so I thought I would add my 2 cents worth! I slowly "Came to the Light" in the latter part of the 70's. I was one of the many who had heard and liked some ELO music without ever really hearing of them. DISCOVERY was the first ELO album I recorded (at a military library in Mississippi) so there is a certain fondness there. Shine a Little Love may be a little on the disco side but it is a happy, bouncy, enjoyable song. My favorites on the album though are Last Train to London and Confusion. In 1981 I saw my only ELO concert (Time Tour). Now I know a lot of people say ELO was already dead by then. I, however, have to disagree. Certainly it was not the same ELO of 10 years previously, but then, who is? This is the album and concert that really got me INTO ELO. It was then I began looking for old albums in record stores. As for TIME, I liked the concept album theory, and I liked most of the songs. Firstly, I love the prologue (I often have it scroll across the screen on my computer at work). My favorite tunes on this one are Rain is Falling, Another Heart Breaks, Ticket to the Moon. To boil the rest down into a few brief paragraphs, OUT OF THE BLUE is definitely my favorite overall album. For me to list the songs I like on this one would be to list all the songs! Wild West Hero stands out on this as one of my favorite all-time songs. Turn to Stone, Across the Border, and Sweet Talkin' Woman are my other favorites. "No Answer" or "Electric Light Orchestra" (like Bev says) is the album I am "least fond of". The orchestral arrangements are a little too dark for me, although, there are days and moods for every ELO album! I do really enjoy 1st Movement and 10538 Overture on this album. I think ELO's most underrated album is A New World Record. This song is packed with great music but I rarely see it mentioned. Shangri-la, Mission, Telephone Line, Tightrope, So Fine, and the Do Ya remake are all great! Finally, when ELO 2 released their first US album, I didn't want to even hear it. And then in '95, I was in Delaware and I saw their first album in a discount rack. I listened to it over and over in my car for about a week! Then a couple of people (for the old list) sent me Moment of Truth, The Night the Light Went Down on Long Beach, One Night (as well as some Idle Race and Move). My Favorite Song List (in no particular order because the order changes daily) follows. *** indicates a "cut" above the rest... 10538 Overture First Movement*** Roll Over Beethoven (much better then Beatles & Berry) Showdown Daybreaker*** In the Hall of the Mountain King Can't Get It Out of My Head*** Fire On High*** Evil Woman Nightrider Strange Magic Turn to Stone*** Sweet Talkin' Woman Across the Border Standing In the Rain*** Wild West Hero*** Telephone Line Mission Shangri-la*** Shine a Little Love Confusion Last Train to London*** Don't Bring me Down I'm Alive*** All Over the World*** Don't Walk Away Ticket To the Moon Rain is Falling Another Heart Breaks Four Little Diamonds Take Me On and On Letter from Spain Stranger Calling America*** Without Someone Getting to the Point So Serious ------------------------------------- ELO II: Honest Men*** Thousand Eyes Kiss Me Red Breaking Down the Walls Power of a Million Lights One More Tomorrow*** The Fox*** So Glad You Said Goodbye All Fall Down*** That's it for today, boyz and girlz.... Keep on Shinin'! ********** Subject: Re: You were talking of favorites.... Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 11:30:07 -0400 (EDT) From: NYWRITER [DISCOVERY was the first ELO album I recorded (at a military library in Mississippi) so there is a certain fondness there. Shine a Little Love may be a little on the disco side but it is a happy, bouncy, enjoyable song.] The joke at the time was that the title was conceived as Disco...Very! ********** Subject: Smoke On The Whopper (good Burger King commercial on US TV!) Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 06:48:18 +0000 From: Joe Ramsey E MORRIS wrote: > To demonstrate this they searched through the Virgin book of rock n > roll (or whatever it was) and decided that they were least likely to > be sued by impersonating The Move! BBC viewers were thus treated to > 3 BBC journalists (with the sound man on drums) playing Blackberry > Way live. That's really funny. Gosh, I was only kidding - maybe that Status Quo II idea isn't so bad after all - Bruce, start practicing - we're goin' on tour! Many years ago in the States, there was a manager of very nefarious inclinations who put together two groups that he called "Deep Purple" and "Fleetwood Mac." This was at a period when both groups had been dormant for awhile and were thought to have broken up. These two bands actually toured California, at least, and maybe further until they were sued and prohibited from using the names. Of course, they didn't have the legal foresight to put the "II" or the "continued" or, my favorite "Son Of..." (your favorite band name here). If they had, who knows? "Smoke On The Water" might still be reverberating from sea to shining sea. By the way, I don't mean this as any kind of knock against Bev and the boys. If anybody has the right to do what they are doing, they do. Frankly, I didn't give it much attention when they started doing ELO Part II, but since reading many of your posts, I think I'll buy an album and give it a shot. ********** Subject: Re: Smoke On The Whopper (good Burger King commercial on US TV!) Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 22:35:38 +0100 From: Jules McNab > Frankly, I didn't give it much attention when they started doing ELO > Part II, but since reading many of your posts, I think I'll buy an > album and give it a shot. Well good for you!!!! So many times people put Part II down without giving them a chance. My recommendation, if you're going to buy anything would be One Night - it's the truest likeness to how the guys really are. Having said that, please please give them a further chance and go see them live, if you possibly can. I guarantee that you'll have a night to remember - they really are incredible live. Go for it, Joe, and let us know how you get on!! ********** Subject: Re: Smoke On The Whopper (good Burger King commercial on US TV!) Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:13:25 +0000 From: "Scott Pierson" Goofed the first reply, I'll try again (Jules, some of this may look familiar!) Additional advice when buying ELO Part II: - One Night is definitely the best overall ELO Part II production. - If you like the "old" ELO sound, I think you will enjoy Moment of Truth over their first release (Electric Light Orchestra Part Two) - Conversely, if you like the "late" ELO sound more, I think the first release will be more to your tastes. - Don't listen expecting to hear ELO or you'll be disappointed. ELO Part II has some similarities, obviously, but are definitely their own band. - Listen to whatever tape/CD you get at least 10 times through before you decide how you like it. First time I heard Moment of Truth, I only liked 1 or 2 songs.... after the 10th I was hooked on all of them! End of Showdown #002 ********************
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