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SHOWDOWN The ELO Mailing List Digest Issue #010 October 25, 1997 In this issue: Jeff's studio wizardry Ipswich show reviewed by Serena Bev's bad aim New pictures from Blackpool MELLOW Fan Club Scott Pierson's new ELO Tribute Site Livin' Thing in "Boogie Nights" film Light Years CD released/track listing Gold CDs ============================================================ ALL PUBLIC RESPONSES TO ARTICLES ON THIS LIST SHOULD BE SENT TO THE TALK LIST ADDRESS: elo-list@eskimo.com ============================================================ Subject: Jeff's studio wizardry! Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 07:31:45 +0000 From: Joe Ramsey Gallandro wrote: > You're at least partially confusing technical prowess > with quality when you (indirectly) accuse critics of not taking the > original demos into account. One shouldn't have to hear the demos to > appreciate the final product. The final product should be judged on its > own merits. Dear Gallandro, Usually, I think that your statement would be correct. In this case, however, the salvage of John's original demos was an incredible sound engineering feat. As I may have stated before, the most challenging aspect of the recording was to make John's performance conform to a beat or click track (similar to playing to a metronome), as there was none when it was recorded. To accomplish this, the engineers/producer had to randomly slow down or speed up the recording to make it conform - this would obviously distort the recording. I think that I read that they were able to digitally remove little bits here and there of the track to make it go to a beat. Then, *somehow*, they had to make the voice and piano sound as if it was unaffected by the speed changes and digital makeover. Absolutely amazing what they accomplished. Admittedly, this was a bit of a "novelty." But I think to Jeff's credit, he made it real. I really got the feeling of a friendly ghost of the past singing his last song - and the funny little banjo thing at the end was a really nice touch - beautiful. Compare this to the gimmicky Natalie Cole duet with Nat King... and maybe you can see what a sympathetic job that Jeff did. Not being a big bootleg fan, I have never heard John's original demos. But I'll tell ya... (here comes the opinion, kids) I was knocked out by both songs. I really didn't expect to like them, but was completely floored by "Free As A Bird." Us dudes don't like to admit this, but it brought a tear to my eye. And as much as I would have liked to hear more tracks like this, I think that two was enough. The Beatles were always the class of music in the sixties. And unlike many of their bretheren, they knew when to quit. ********** Subject: Re: Jeff's studio wizardry! Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 9:13:25 -0700 From: Gallandro >Usually, I think that your statement would be correct. In this case, >however, the salvage of John's original demos was an incredible sound >engineering feat. I agree. But once again, my only point is that however great the technical work, the song ultimately needs to be judged on the song's own merits. You can perform the greatest remastering in the world on "The Battle of Marston Moor," but in the end, you still just have "The Battle of Marston Moor." To someone who likes this song, they have a great sounding version of it. To someone who doesn't like it, the song's not going to get any better for having cleaner sound. But I won't disagree that technically, Jeff's work on these two songs was remarkable. ********** Subject: Re: Jeff's studio wizardry! Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 10:40:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Bruce Dumes Joe wrote: > Not being a big bootleg fan, I have never heard John's original demos. > But I'll tell ya... (here comes the opinion, kids) I was knocked out > by both songs. I really didn't expect to like them, but was completely > floored by "Free As A Bird." Us dudes don't like to admit this, but > it brought a tear to my eye. When I heard FAAB at the end of the first episode of the Anthology shown in Nov '95, I was almost ready to blob too -- but they set you up to feel that way from the beginning of the show when they played "In My Life". It was really so well done, another example of that class you mentioned. The video was *incredible* too -- done with a *LOT* of Beatle involvement. ********** Subject: Ipswich Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 20:35:29 -0400 From: SERENA TORZ OK, OK, so I was here last week with Reading, and you're probably expecting more of the same, but No! Ipswich had a completely different feel from Reading. The crowd, for one thing, were so much more enthusiastic (more of that later); the theatre was somewhat bigger (although not completely full - they didn't manage to sell out upstairs very well); and the weather couldn't have been more different - last week it was 'Standin' In The Rain', this week it was 'Mr Blue Sky'! An absolute pleasure! There were a few small misunderstandings between band, fans and venue re: photographs and standing up, during the first half, but these were all ironed out in the second half, resulting in most of Ipswich on its feet from the second song in - as opposed to nearly halfway over last week. The one thing that struck me was the sheer diversity in ages of the audience tonight. I was stood next to an 11-year-old girl who knew all the words to 'Do Ya' as well as the rest of us - she later admitted that she'd been a fan since she was 9! At the other end of the scale, I saw people in late middle-age having just as good a time as us young 'uns. PART II were really cooking tonight. 'Horace Wimp' was particularly good, although to these ears, anyway, I could have sworn that the girl Horace met was small and "very hairy"! I found myself closing my eyes and drifting away during 'Getting To The Point', 'Midnight Blue' and 'Because' - they were all so beautiful. As for the rockers, highlights for me were 'Ma-Ma-Ma Belle', 'Whiskey Girls' (but its too short!), 'Do Ya', 'Rockaria!', and 'Don't Bring Me Down'. Bev's solo was on fine form (as were his speeches!), and it was obvious he was having a good time, because he was grinning from ear to ear all the way through! Bev also bongo-ed his way very merrily through 'All Fall Down', giving the song a lovely, bright and breezy feel. There were a lot of new faces along the front row tonight, too. The 'Bunny Brigade' had taken a night or two off - to be replaced by the 'Lamb Chop Brigade', a group of Scousers (before you all start writing in about slang again, I shall explain that 'Scouser' is slang for a native of Liverpool - so yes, the Beatles are Scousers, too), whose mascot was, yes, you've guessed it, Lamb Chop (as in Shari Lewis and...). Lamb Chop had her 15 minutes of fame during Bev's speech, during his introduction of Eric. Eric, he explained, was, despite his benign appearance, "really hard" (cue lots of face pulling and aggressive stances from Eric). Eric, it seemed had worked with many people, not only the usual ones always mentioned, but, it seems, the aforementioned Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop! So Lamb Chop gets lobbed onstage, to be intercepted by Kelly, who promptly put her on Eric's shoulder (if it comes out, I have taken a photo of Eric kissing her! Interested, JK?). Sir Lou was announced as 'Mr Action', which actually induced a smile from the knighted one! Bev was 'The Master of Loud'. Before I finish, I should give a very special mention and thank-you to the lighting and sound people, who have done such a good job on this tour. It's so nice to be able to see the band properly again, and the back projections and 'Vari-light' (thanks, Ken Latta!) effects were quite stunning. A nice touch was filling the backdrop with lots of little tiny lights during 'Midnight Blue', which looked just like stars on a clear black night. So it's off to bed now (perchance to dream!), and back to normality again, at least until the weekend - then it's Brentwood, and finally, Shepherds Bush (the last date on the tour - should be a riot!). And for those that know me and are interested, after nearly 20 years of trying, I finally got that drumstick tonight - an early birthday present (I'm 33 on Saturday!). Thanks, Bev! ********** Subject: Bev's Bad Aim! Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 19:46:00 +0000 From: Joe Ramsey SERENA TORZ wrote: > And for those that know me and are interested, after nearly 20 years of > trying, I finally got that drumstick tonight - an early birthday present > (I'm 33 on Saturday!). Thanks, Bev! Dear Serena, Reminds me of the time at the Los Angeles Shrine Auditorium during the El Dorado tour; A Bev drumstick bounced out of my hand and into the waiting paw of a not-so-earnest devotee. Damn!! (and I'll be 41 the following Saturday!!). It's all good! ********** Subject: Bev's Bad Aim... Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 06:42:29 -0500 From: Kathy Schauf Hey, Joe! Got you beat by 3 years (age wise) and a tour. Still haven't gotten a stick. Jules M. felt so sorry for me when she heard of my 25 years without a stick (And I did try!) she sent me one! Always the bridesmaid, never the bride....@44. ********** Subject: New pictures from Blackpool Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 23:18:18 +0100 From: John Kilcline Hi All, Thanks to Ken Latta for some excellent new piccies of the guys at Blackpool this Sunday (19th Oct) http://www.elopart2.demon.co.uk/elopics.html Nice ones Ken!!! ********** Subject: MELLOW Fan Club Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 07:50:23 +0000 From: Joe Ramsey Hey Move/ELO/Wizzard People, I've been meaning to ask - does anyone remember the MELLOW (Move ELO Wizzard) fan club that existed in the early seventies? It was run by a nice fellow named Jack Springer (I think) somewhere in Ohio. Anyway, I have a few of the news bulletins stashed in my GIANT stack of memorabilia *somewhere* and I'm threatening to pull 'em out and possibly transcribe some of the text for the list if y'all are interested. I even remember a photo of an ersatz Move reunion (after what looks like many pints) at the Wizzard "Eddy & The Falcons" release party. Roy and Jeff jamming together - but I'm not sure if Bev was there or not. Good stuff. ********** Subject: Yet Another ELO Tribute Site! Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:31:06 +0000 From: Scott Pierson That's right, folks. I am finalizing my all-new and all-exciting ELO Tribute Site! Actually, it is not as high-tech as others I have seen. You can't listen to WAV files, there are no video clips in here. Frankly, this is really my first attempt at a serious web site. There are no huge GIFs or JPGs to wait for loading (386 users may have to wait a minute, though). From the main page you can choose from a couple of magazine articles to read or look at the discography. I have pictures of album jackets and most of the lyrics. I will post a quick note when the thing is finished and uploaded. I would really appreciate HONEST opinions. If you like it, tell me. If it sucks... well, be gentle. ********** Subject: ELO WEB SITE Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:14:35 +0000 From: Scott Pierson It's Up and Running! (I Hope) http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~pierson/elo.html PLEASE take a look and tell me what you think! ********** Subject: "Livin' Thing"...a good porn flick song?? Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:57:07 +0000 From: Lynn Hoskins Adam John Vogt wrote: > LIVIN' THING supposedly appears on the soundtrack for "Boogie > Nights", along with other 70's favorites. I read that Michael Penn did this music for this film. He must be an ELO fan. However, I have to wonder how Jeff felt about his song being used in a movie about a Los Angeles porn ring. From what I've heard, Jeff is fairly particular about the sort of things his music is associated with. Does anyone have the scoop on this? ********** Subject: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:40:45 +0000 From: Maurice Dockrell Hi - just got my copy of Light Years and am listening to it as I write. Sound quality is good (I am not in a position to say if it is excellent as I am listening to it on a so so system - my normal one is in storage) - inside notes are very good - well done Rob - packaging a little uninspired - OK but a tad boring - inside a mix of album covers and singles birghten things up a bit. My only gripe is that the version of Secret Messages is the album one - why not the single version - I have the album one on CD already but only have the single on vinyl. Apart from that it is what it claims to be a definitive version - no major surprises and no nasty shocks - the best bit so far was the 7"edit of Ma Ma Belle which is really good - I only ever had the album version before and this version was a revelation to me the guitar in the middle is great. It lacks the rawness of the album version which i also love but this was something different. I also like the track listing - a good mix of eras going on all over the palce - nothing too samey together - it would have been nice to have Getting to the Point as the last song as it ended ELO but this only occured to me as I read Rob's notes. All in All this compilation is as good as it should be and is easily the best ELO compilation I have heard (not counting Afterglow which had all the rare stuff) - I hope it sells millions and Sony then release Secret Messages the full version and more gold master versions . Congratulations to Rob again. ********** Subject: Re: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:00:06 +0000 From: Maurice Dockrell Lynn Hoskins wrote: > If it's convenient, would you mind posting the track listing? I recall > someone asking a question about it a while back. Also, is it import > only? Track Listing CD 1 1. Turn to Stone 2. Evil Woman 3. Livin' Thing 4. Twilight 5. Telephone Line 6. Four Little Diamonds 7. Xanadu 8. Last Train to London 9. Strange Magic (7" edit) 10. Ma Ma Belle (7" edit) 11. Confusion 12. Rock n' Roll is King 13. The Way Life's Meant to Be 14. Cani't Get it Out of my Head (7" edit) 15. Secret Messages (Special version from the LP) 16. Calling America 17. Don't Walk Away 18. Don't Bring Me Down 19. Mr. Blue Sky CD 2 1. Sweet Talkin' Woman 2. I'm Alive 3. Shine a Little Love 4. Ticket to the Moon 5. Illusions in G Major 6. So Serious 7. Nightrider (7" edit) 8. All Over the World 9. Here is the News 10. The Diary of Hoarace Wimp 11. Across the Border (EP version) 12. Showdown 13. Hold On Tight 14. Wild West Hero 15. Do Ya 16. 10538 Overture (7" edit) 17. Getting to the Point 18. Rockaria ! 19. Roll Over Beethoven (7" edit) The CD's come out as double CD Nice Price Version - price in Dublin in HMV stlg14.99 It certainly is not import only in Dublin but have no idea about elsewhere. ********** Subject: Re: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 14:18:38 -0700 From: Gallandro >I hope it sells millions and Sony then release Secret >Messages the full version and more gold master versions. Please no more gold CDs... there are enough of those overpriced scams on the market for ELO as it is. I'd like my remastered ELO albums to be on reasonably-priced discs, please, not price-inflated collector-oriented gold discs. The major lables have demonstrated time and again that they can remaster artists' catalogues and sell them at normal prices (the Byrds, Rush, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa, Pink Floyd, Yes, Journey...) and still make a tidy profit without using the "gold disc" gimmick. ********** Subject: Re: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:42:59 +0000 From: Maurice Dockrell > Please no more gold CDs... there are enough of those overpriced scams on > the market for ELO as it is. Well I like having Gold Discs - they don't cost that much - only stlg2-3 more - the packaging is better - more effort is put into the whole project and probably makes it viable to produce low volume recordings (in sales terms of course) for a profit - of course I would love them to put in all the effort and then lower the price - but paying a bit extra is better than not having the remastered version at all. ********** Subject: Re: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:06:06 +0100 From: KEN LATTA Gallandro wrote: > Please no more gold CDs... there are enough of those overpriced scams on > the market for ELO as it is. I'd like my remastered ELO albums to be on > reasonably-priced discs, please, not price-inflated collector-oriented > gold discs. The major lables have demonstrated time and again that > they can remaster artists' catalogues and sell them at normal prices > (the Byrds, Rush, Led Zeppelin, Frank Zappa, Pink Floyd, Yes, Journey...) > and still make a tidy profit without using the "gold disc" gimmick. I was speaking to Rob Caiger at the Derby gig last week, and he mentioned to me that the tracks on the new 'Light Years' CD had all been remastered! Maybe Rob can contact the mailing list to reconfirm this? ********** Subject: Re: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 15:00:11 -0700 From: Gallandro >Well I like having Gold Discs - they don't cost that much - only >stlg2-3 more Well, I can't speak for your market (I'm not sure what country code .ie is). Here in the U.S., the price of a gold disc is typically double that of a regular issue. If it were only a bit higher I wouldnt complain at all. If the pricing structure is vastly different for you, I can see why you'd have a different viewpoint about it. >- the packaging is better - more effort is put into the whole project and >probably makes it viable to produce low volume recordings (in sales terms >of course) for a profit My point was, the packaging can be as good or as shoddy as they decide to make it regardless of what material the disc is pressed on, and regardless of what they decide to sell it for. Plenty of other artists have had their catalogues overhauled, with good packaging and great sound, without having to double the price of the final product. ELO is not some fringe group that few people have heard of. They sold an awful lot of records in their day. >- of course I would love them to put in all the effort and then lower the >price - but paying a bit extra is better than not having the remastered >version at all. Certainly! I'd agree if it were a "bit" extra that we were talking about. But I think we're coming at this from different markets. As I said, if the situation were that I could get gold CDs for only a bit more than aluminum, that would be great. But when the price doubles, there's a problem. Right now, domestic (to the U.S.) ELO albums are mostly midline priced ($8-$10). I'd expect them to go up to full retail ($15-$17) if a decent overhaul was done on them. (This would follow the trend of amny of the other artists I cited.) But they don't need to sell for around $30 (as a gold disc would) to be profitable for the label. ********** Subject: Re: Light Years Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 22:21:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Lucas On Sat, 25 Oct 1997, Internet-o-gram wrote: >ELO is not some fringe group that few people have heard of. They sold an >awful lot of records in their day. *ahem!* And will again, I believe. Sorry to nitpick. :) End of Showdown #010 ********************
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